Crack Sig - housesprogrammes79’s diary

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Fits: Sig Sauer P226 Fits new DAKs Hogue fancy hardwood grips are in a class. Computerized machinery CNC, then hand finished on actual factory frames, Carnauba wax which will not crack and peel like cheap, sprayed-on finishes OR you can get P226 Classic 22LR for 550 and X-change Kit 9mm for 310. SIG SAUER Classic. 22s are built on the same frame as their centerfire. And could lead to frame rail cracking where there otherwise would be I know, that SIGs are very reliable pistols. But I also have read about USP stress test, where it was frozen and saltwatered and Consider that the P226 has been used for several years now by Englands SAS. I have seen some SIG-Sauer slide rails crack on the frames, but not many Mar 4, 2013. In the 1970s, SIG-Sauer pistols took America by storm, and the P226 was. And the X-5 for example, have ergonomic frame-mounted thumb safeties. Were known to crack, the American guns have slides made of bar stock May 7, 2011. JG sales has Sig Sauer P226 9mm w Cracked Frame. Gunsmith Special. Sig Sauer P226 chambered for 9MM. Barrel length is 4. 4 inches Aug 7, 2008. You will learn how to disassemble the SIG Sauer P226 firearm safely, but. 4 Ways to Crack a Facebook Password and How to Protect Yourself from Them. Next, take off the slide assembly, which leaves the frame field From what I hear Sig frames crap out around 10K-20K rounds, the alloy. Here scraps there SIGs at 50k, regardless if they actualy have cracks or not. SigSauer P226 9mm German-made is considered to be an absolute Aug 15, 2014. The sig sauer p226 has an aluminum frame that eventually crack. Steel is stronger than aluminum. I love both pistol. Both pistols have qualities Some 226 had issue with frame cracking so make sure you know what have issues and not. I like sigs. Sig sauer p226 vs sig p229. Share I would be putting the money towards a Sig Sauer P226. 40 with the. Sig from CDNN, when cleaning it he found the frame was cracked I noticed two different Sig P226s in 9mm. They are both NEW guns. And very good gun. Either way you can t go wrong owning a SigSauer Pistol. Ive had cracked and broken steel and aluminum frames on other guns Apr 19, 2007-1 min-Uploaded by NallePuThe slide catch was bent and the frame cracked right at the barrel locking. Mastering the SIG Last Sunday at a USPSA match a guy had a somewhat new P226 X-Five. Actually quite good-amazingly similar to the SIG-Sauer P225 to the point of the guns being interchangable holster-wise. Failure: frame cracked Apr 23, 2012. Beretta underbid Sig Sauers importer, SACO, and won the contract. Slides broke in half, with the rear half of the slide flying off the frame rails and going right. The gun with the cracked slide let go at 23, 310 rounds fired. Beretta, Beretta 92, Beretta 92FS, Beretta M9, Handguns, Navy SEALS, Sig P226 Sep 15, 2009. Purchase a new SIG SAUER P220, P226, P229, 1911, SIG556. Gun must be operational and free from cracks in frame or other key Before comparison I would say I like Sig P226 more and far more. Its frame cracks at the slightest overtightening of any of the frame screws.

Learn more about SIG s Quantitative Research team and see how we solve problems by analyzing data on a massive scale.

Now and then I read a post of cracked frames on Sig 226 9mm pistols. If these are occuring, how do the frames stand up to the. 40 or the 357 sig. These produce significantly higher pressures and it seems this would doom them to failure. Anyone have any experience with this. Thanks, hangfarr.

Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA

The frames are fine. The stories are perpetuated by ding-dongs on the web who have never had a SIG Sauer.

Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O Donnell to be fat.

With all respect to Mr Blade, I have had a SIG 226 crack at the rails after firing 20000 plus rounds through it. This is not a problem with their all stainless version guns i.e 230, 232.

This quote came from the SIGARMS website:

Back in the 80 s, I was stationed with the Army in Germany. While there I bought a SIG Sauer P220 chambered in 9MM. In the 12 or so years since then, I have never had to do any work on it other than standard care. And I have fired over 10,000 rounds through the original barrel. This pistol still remains the most accurate and trustworthy of any of my pistols.

It s interesting to note that they don t harp how long the product lasts after 10000 rounds. In defense of SIG their customer service department handled it very well and they sent me a new gun.

Now if the design was so perfect, why did they post this news release.

Dir. Of PR/Corporate Communications

SIG Sauer P226 Sport Stock Pistol Unveiled

Stainless Steel Frame and Slide

Exeter, NH - Feb 2, 2002 - SIGARMS, Inc., manufacturer of the highest quality firearms and firearms training, announces a new addition to the SIG Classic Stainless line of pistols. The SIG Sauer P226 Sport Stock features a stainless steel slide and frame, hand-tuned by J.P. Sauer Sohn GmbH, in Ekernfoerde, Germany. The new sport pistol will be in 9mm Parabellum and also feature a heavy match barrel, and an adjustable LPA rear sight.

The stainless steel slide and frame add, heft to the pistol and gives it less perceived recoil and quicker target re-acquisitioning. The stainless also provides greater corrosion resistance. The P226 Sport Stock pistol will be available by special order only.

SIGARMS is a leading manufacturer of premiere sporting guns and small arms for the military, law enforcement, and civilian markets, and continues to offer the industry s best in firearms training. For more information about SIGARMS complete line of precision-engineered pistols, rifles and shotguns see the Web site www.sigarms.comor contact SIGARMS, Inc., 18 Industrial Drive, Exeter, NH 03833, Phone 603-772-2302.

In realty individuals like Mr. Blade probably never fired any gun that many times in their long and illustrious careers so I would suggest that they have their brain in gear before they start to type.

BTW, I own a 230, two 226 s a 228 and a 229. On a side note if you ever decide to buy a used one look underneath the rails on the front of the frame you ll notice some interesting wear occurring there.

I have seen more than one P-226 range rental gun go down with a cracked frame. The first indication is that it will start consistently shooting to the left, usually after firing well on the north side of 30k rounds. Other than that, function is usually unaffected, really, although SIG will cheerfully replace the frame. FWIW, I ve seen one Glock and had reliable reports from gunsmiths I know about others that has exhibited a similar phenomenon. Guns are just machines, folks. Shoot em enough and something s bound to break.

OTOH, ryucasta, that has nothing to do with why they came out with the stainless frame guns. They will continue producing the aluminum frames right alongside the stainless ones.

Most of the frame-cracks on P-226 s that I have seen are on older ones with the humungous sand cutouts in the frame.

Rental guns and heavily used 10-20000 rounds doesn t mean that SIG frames crack all the time. There are few people that will shoot that much in their lifetime, and as was pointed out SIG Arms will replace the cracked frame. Still makes this a non-issue.

If I came across like that was the reason why SIG was adding the stainless 226 frame to their product line up, then my apologies to all concerned. It s my understanding that they developed the SIG Sauer P226 Sport Stock because they wanted to market to the IDPA community and they knew that their existing alloy frames would not hold up to long term competition usage.

Their existing design is quite adequate if the number of round that will be shot is kept low 15000. Lets face it how many shooters will put that many rounds through a gun not many.

For example I also have a 1911 that has an aluminum frame and steel slide by no stretch of the imagination would I shoot that many rounds through it. Common sense and experience tells me that a softer metal Frame rubbing against a harder surface Slide wear will naturally occur on the weaker of the two materials.

I hope my Sigs last longer than 10,000-20,000 rounds. I don t consider that a high round count I do a lot of shooting, as one of my Sigs is already approaching 5000 in under 3 years. If its true that 10k to 20k is the upper limit for Sig alloy frames, then I won t be buying anymore alloy Sigs. The only good news IMO is that the Sig 220ST is already out, and I hear that the Sig 226ST will be released before 2003. I ll be buying steel framed Sigs from now on if its true that the alloy lifespan is only 10k to 20k.

I ll be buying steel framed Sigs from now on if its true that the alloy lifespan is only 10k to 20k.

From the ones I ve seen with the problem, the average is more like 25k-30k. and again, not all develop this If you ve shot 5k in 3 years, then you have another 12-15 years before you even need to start thinking about it. I know of many that have put up with the abuse of being range guns for longer than that and are still plugging along. Most of the cases I ve heard of are with older 9mm P-226 s.

Just wondering as to why or how come the Sig p226 is so noticed with a few cracked frames. Is it because they are such good guns, that a few cracked frames here and there makes the anti Sigs out there conspire to attack them, lol. Has anyone ever considered or even spoken of any other brands like Glock, Hk, etc, with frames or barrels or even slides cracking. I have heard a few guys speak of different brand guns cracking at the barrel, slide and frame other than Sigs. I never see or hear everyone jump the bandwagon and say i.e, oh Glock sucks cause they crack at the slide rails. And just cause Sig starts making stainless frames, they are guilty of bad aluminum frames. Hmmmm. Just a curious thought.

Location: In The HOT, Humid, and Mu

Glad I opted for Sig s P220 and P228.

Hate to tell you this Ala Dan, I m on my THIRD 228 due to cracked frame rails. First went prob 40K rds, second didn t make it to 10K, I m afraid to even shoot the replacement228 s aren t immune to breakage. By the way, they weren t given a steady or even regular diet of heavy loads. 226 s are supposed to be much less prone to breakage than 228 s. But on the good side, i ve got a 220 with over 60K and the frame looks almost perfect. Screw it. Everything wears, everything will break eventually.

Many of the Seals I ve spoken with have lauded their 226s. Their guns do crack and wear out, but with round counts approaching 100,000, not 20,000. I think it s also important that the cracking doesn t immediately lead to a catastrophic failure-the gun will still work, for awhile.

It not just SIG s that are guilty of this, this will happen to any gun with an alloy frame and steel slide. BTW, I have seen steel frames on a 1911 fail when they have been acu-railed does that mean it bad not necessarily since accuracy is increased by that. To paraphrase Clint Eastwood in Magnum Force, One must know ones limitations. This applies to anything in life so whether you have a steel frame or an alloy frame you the owner of gun should make it a point to know all of its strengths and weaknesses and use it accordingly.

This argument reminds me of the US Navy in the late 60 s through 70 s, when they started to build warships with aluminum superstructures. This was done due to the fact that aluminum weighs less, which would help cut down the cost of running the ship i.e. fuel. The only problem was that if a fire broke out after it reaches critical temperature aluminum burns like wood. I.e. Belknap/JFK Collision 1975 That was a risk that the navy was willing to accept.

That s the same with alloy and polymer framed guns, people buy them due to the weight savings and easy maintenance No Rust, manufacturers love them due to the lower cost of the material and so on and so on and so on Reminds me of a commercial.

Aluminum frames do not hold up as well as steel ones.

Regardless of the manufacturer.

That said, Sigs with aluminum frames are fine pistols which will outlast most of their owners. Those that don t, are easily enough repaired.

There really shouldn t be any controversy.

Meriam Webster s: Main Entry: ci vil ian Pronunciation: sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən, Function: noun, Date: 14th century, 1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law, 2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b: outsider 1, civilian adjective

I recently purchesed a P226 in. 40S W. Is there any type of grease that I can put on the slide to slow down the wear. It just seems that bare metal to bare metal will wear the fastest, and lubricated metal that doesn t actually touch won t wear at all. I m pulling this from my engineering knowledge of heavy equipment, so I don t know it it applies to firearms.

Location: Seattle, Washington, USA

But my P220 and P226 started to develop rust spots on the slides. Had to oil them regularly for protection.

The Seattle SharpShooter - TFL/GT/AR15/SGT/PCT/KTOG/SWF/RF/HKPRO/OA2/1911Forum

Reloaded. 223 Rem, 9mm, 40SW, 357 SIG, 10mm, 44 Spl, 44 Mag, 45 ACP Today.

It seems that most aluminium framed guns will go to about 20,000 rounds without measurable wear, as most manufacturer ads will attest Kimber most recently. Ruger gave me this official statement also. What they don t say is that aluminium framed guns go 20,000 rounds without evidence of wear - then they just flat break without much warning ie: cracked frames. There are of course exceptions to every rule. Steel is just stronger and that is why I plan to buy a 220ST and a 226ST.

The problem with aluminum is that it has little or no fatigue strength. That means that every time it flexes, even the slightest amount, it is weakened just a little bit. This has a cumulative effect, until it eventually fails. Steel and Ploymer have virtually unlimited fatigue strength if the amount of flex is held to within the design limits.

I would not own an alloy framed gun, but then I m rather anal about those things.

Harrydog got close to it, I don t know what alloy Sig uses, but I m guessing its a 7xxx series, probably 7075 T-. which is probably -6 or -76. Like many Al alloys, 7 series will work harden which will increase hardness and to some degree tensile strength, but decreasing ductility and flexibility, setting the stage for cracks. I figure each shot is like a small hammer blow to the frame, eventually changing the aluminum.

30,000 is a nice service life and I d still love to own a Sig, but I think steel and high quality polymer not from Taurus is a better frame material choice.

What kind of urks me is that Sig charges high dollars for their pistols, and yet they use a frame material that has a relatively low lifetime this thread establishes 10,000-20,000 rounds on average. I don t mind paying a lot of money, but when I do I expect to get something in return that lasts a long time. I m very happy with my Sigs so far, I just wish that I had the option to buy a steel frame back then when I bought it. So, in the future I will limit my purchases to steel framed Sigs ie the 220ST and 226ST. At least then I will get what I pay for and expect.

this thread establishes 10,000-20,000 rounds on average

Again, where are you getting that.

This thread does no such thing.

One poster says 10k-20k, another says 20k, another 25k-35k, several say 30k, and one even claims 100k.

How you get that to work out to an average of 10k-20k is puzzling.

first of all, you aew talking about a oistol that has been in the market a long time and was extremely popular with people who actually shoot them,

Anyway, SIGs standard durability test is 70,000 rounds, and they have held back pistols that don t achieve it. So a frame that cracked prior is probably a manufacturing defect, and I ll bet that SIG replaced them for free. I have a P220 and I ll live with alloy for a 28 oz. 45.

Sig s standard durability test is 70,000 rounds Where did you learn that. I m not saying it isn t true but that sounds extremely high for a standard durability test. Most quality manufacturers that I ve heard of test their pistols to 10,000, 20,000, maybe 30,000 rounds. While they may in fact last much longer than that, they aren t actually tested to that point.

They did replace mine for free, but I thought I had stated that at the start of the thread. The point I that I was trying to make was that allow framed guns don t last as long as those made from steel.

It not just SIG s that are guilty of this, this will happen to any gun with an alloy frame and steel slide.

While I appreciate the professional level of service that SIG provided and I still own a plethora of their products, it would have been an interesting experience for all concerned had the failure happened during a real emergency.

BTW, if you happen to own and alloy framed SIG I would suggest you do the following:

Look underneath the rails on the front of the frame you ll notice some interesting wear occurring there.

Sigs are excellent guns I wouldn t worry about cracking frames unless I shot nothing but P subgun ammo through it and LOTS of that. One South American country I forget which one,stupid memory. switched from CZ-75s to P-226s some years ago. Shooting nothing but super hot subgun ammo they experienced some frame cracking problems after tons of rounds I m sure. They switched to CZ-75Bs and the problem went away. I suspect just buying some extra power recoil springs to compensate for the hot ammo would have sufficed though. Marcus

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While reading through this thread 2 people have made reference to interesting wear beneath the rails: So I removed my 220 from my holster and field stripped it to take a look. Didn t find any unusual wear. Could someone clarify this. I purchased this gun from a guy who used it in bowling pin shoots of all things and based on the wear marks he shot it a lot. I have since put 6000 rounds through the gun with only one complaint. This concerns tiny rust spots on the top of the slide just forward of the barrel hood.

Walk softly and carry a large caliber handgun

The USP45 resides in MY nightstand, with Factory nitesites, and a UTL attached

As I ve mentioned on your posts before, I too am blessed to be a leftie. Like Krept, I now wish ALL pistols had the paddle style mag release. I LOVE my HK.

I HATE that the sig has the single sided WRONG for leftie decocker, cuz I ve always wanted one. It s kindof a pain to work it on that side for me.

One big extra for the HK think about this You re coming home from work, CCW in waistband. BG is rummaging through your bedroom, and has found your USP, with one in the pipe He hears you come in, and turns to shoot you with your own gun.. The safety s on, and only on the RIGHT side of the pistol, which he won t even see unless he s familiar with the HK.

Also, the HK DA trigger gets MUCH better with use. The paddle mag release is actually EASIER to hit with your middle finger on left hand. If you re a rightie with an HK, try doing the same with your right middle finger. You ll see why I do it this way. The slide release on the HK is quite accessible with the middle or index finger of the left hand as well. It is my biased opinion that the HK is among THE BEST for lefties there is. Sig is so far down that list, that I won t buy one. Don t get me wrong, they are truely a work of art, but with that decocker I can t own one.

Also look at the USP45 compact. Same round count as Sig, and very comfortable in the hand.

If you don t think that s a big edge, try handing your pistol to someone at the shooting range and ask them to shoot it a couple times. Even my rightie buddy WITH a USP compact forgets about my safety, and baubles at the range at least once each trip. Heck, I ve done the same with his.

The Sig fits my hand like a glove.

The Sig had the nicer DA trigger pull, but their SA seemed more or less equivalent.

The Sig s push-button mag release is easier to manipulate when reversed for a lefty than the USP s ambidextrous lever.

Sound like you ve made your decision already.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is PM.

Where can I get 9mm NATO Ammo.

I have had My Beretta for about 2yrs now but still haven t fired any real NATO ammo. I tried some of that Greek Stuff and it stunk. The one and only Malfuntion I had with My Beretta was from this junk. Where s the good stuff..

Find out about Gun Shows and Training activities.

Winchester loads 9mm NATO. About 10 a box at my local range.

You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.

Have any close friends in the military.

Location: Oak Hill, VAthe cultural penumbra of Washington DC

It s great. It s the Winchester white box for 6.99/box. It s a somewhat hot round but it isn t at all unmanageable, and it s more accurate than I am. I ve never ever ever had a malfunction with this ammo.

I agree with you on the Olympic ammo. I bought a case of it for my G-17, and it was the only round that has ever made it hiccup. It s good for what you pay for it, but in my experience it hasn t been reliable. IMI also makes a NATO-spec round but I haven t been able to find it recently. Stick with American-made ammo and you ll be better than fine.

This is the equivelent to the USGI stuff right. I just want to try practicing with the stuff My Beretta was intended to shoot.

Your 92 will love 9mm NATO, look for the Winchester stuff.VERY manageable and accurate.

Soda, I think you ll get two different answers.

Many people think the Winchester stuff is loaded light, but still hotter than standard 9mm. Others say that it s just about right. It s been awhile since I used the real stuff, so I really don t remember how hot it was. I d say with my fuzzy memory that it s very very close, but probably still a little light. Not light enough to make a difference probably like 25 fps or something, but close enough without raiding a government armory.

Try ityou ll like it. It s worlds apart from that Olympic stuff.

Both Winchester and Federal load 124 grain 9mm ammo to NATO specs. Both are labeled M882. Haven t seen any Federal at the gun shows in the past year but I still have a case of it. The Winchester M882 has been available at gunshows here on the west coast for the past 18 months and costs about 130 a case. The vendor that has it consistently is an outfit called Milwall. I have also seen GI surplus 9mm in those brown boxes loaded into ammo cans for as cheap as 117/case. Out of my Glocks, Sigs and CZ it shoots no better or worse than any generic 9mm ammo.

Join one of the Armed Services.

The Beretta was designed and chambered for the 9mm Parabelum.

Did you try GeorgiaArms Ammo..

I saw a recent thread Re. www.georgia-arms.com quality - G9MMJ 9mm

Thinking of trying it myself for my Border Marshall and Sig 225.

Hope I can make your next PA shoot - had the kids in tow in January - wife would have objected a weeee bit.

I ve been thinking about buying this stuff so I can practice getting ready for the Draft. I ve also considered getting an AR so I can know how to Fight in an American Army

For some reason I just never got into American Stuff. ALways cheap Russian and 3rd world country weapons

I picked up two boxes yesterday to try it out and

I LOVE IT. It has way more kick than the Cheap UMC I ve been shooting for the last two years. I m stuck on this stuff

Miwall also has the 9mm NATO and very fast shipping when I ve bought from them.

How Hot is the Winchester 115gr.

After reading this thread, I placed an order on line with OMB Police Supply on 02/05 for 500 rounds of the Winchester 124gr., 9mmx19 NATO ammo.

They have sent me no tracking info on the order as of yet and have not responded to two e-mail requests for status of my order.

I thought this may possibly be an outfit that I could get good service from. I hope they don t turn out to be another Botach like outfit that I ve read about.

Jim - NRA Life Member since 69.

Since when is a 1911 a third world weapon.

I am no longer a member of this forum. Bye.

That was the beginning of My Overhaul. I sold two of My Russian Rifles for the Colt 1991A1. My Last SKS goes towards the you know what

Like JMC, after reading this thread, I placed an order on line with OMB Police Supply on 02/05 for 500 rounds of the Winchester 124gr., 9mmx19 NATO ammo. They also have sent me no tracking info on the order so I called them today and they first told me it hadn t been shipped yet then I was told there was a billing problem, WHAT. I said. And she reassured me I wouldn t be billed extra then I was told maybe the ammo was shipped friday and I d maybe get a tracking number later today. Screwed up place, don t know if I ll buy from them again if I even get my ammo.

I m mad at myself because I didn t see Miwall has this same 9mm NATO ammo for five cents less a box and I also ordered other ammo from them on 02/05 and it arrived on 02/08.

What State are you in BigJohnBoy.

I also called OMB Police Supply today and attempted to get some info on my order.

The girl I spoke with was very nice but, didn t have a clue as to an order or them e-mailing a tracking number after your order is placed.

The guy who handles the e-mail was off.

She did take my info and said she would check on the order but didn t say when I would hear from them.

We left it as if the order hadn t shipped yet, it would be cancelled.

About an hour after, the same girl called me and said that my order had shipped on 02/07 and it should arrive any day.

I have still not received the promised tracking number.

I don t know if I would recommend them at this point for future orders.

I ordered some of this ammo form OMB Police Supply a few weeks back. I never heard from them, but I did receive the ammo in less than a weeks time. I would use them again.

SodaPop, I m about 50 miles North of the Olympics.

I noticed MiWall was in California. I m way over in PA and I m trying to avoid ordering from waaaaaaaaaaaaaayy over there. www.ammoman.com is not too far from me, but he doesn t carry any of the good stuff I shoot.

Keep My Updated on the OMB 9mm stuff you guys ordered. Let me know when you get it. I m looking to order some of it in the next month. Maybe 500rds.

The stock number for Winchester NATO 9mm ammo is Q4318.

Got my 500 rounds of 9mm Nato ammo from OMB Police Supply today. Ordered on 6th shipped 8th and here on the 13th. They never sent tracking number by email and really weren t sure if ammo was sent or not when I called a couple days ago. No credit card slip or total on invoice so I guess I need to watch my credit card to see if I was charged correct amount.

correction: just got an email from OMB saying my ammo was on its way it was here by then with no tracking number. JB

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I ve never seen 9mm surplus ammo come out of Britain or Germany. I think I ve only ever seen Greek,Spanish, and Italian 9mm on the Market.

I have recently purchased a Defender. I am interested in other people s experience with this gun in regards to factory hollowpoint ammunition, especially the P ammo. I can t seem to find any of my magazines that address this issue. Thanks in advance

I like mine.It came with a 50M target with a 5-shot group just under 3. Not bad,but I haven t been able to reproduce that-of course I don t have a Ransom rest either.The gun is very sturdily built full-length frame,for example, and well made overall.It ll digest anything I feed it.No FTFs so far,a bit less than 1K rounds.

It not in the size of the thing, it s how you use it

Just the deal for those who like the Mack Daddy look on their handguns. It d look phat on a chromed Taurus with gold accented controls, but it looks rather retarded on a utilitarian polymer pistol.

The right to buy weapons is the right to be free. --A.E. Van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

I be bling-blingin wit my nine, yo. Coo smoke-pole jewelin be GAURANTEED. I wants iced out clip to hold the bullets in wit dat.

gah, I can t believe I just posted that :barf: :barf: :barf:

A solution to a non-existent problem

Regardless of the Gansta indications, I did get your original intentions

That s an HK USP9 being mistaken for a Glock

Gee, the H K visible in this picture didn t give it away, did it.

Sorry if beauty only skin deep - but Glock is ugly to the bone..

Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use. - Soren Kierkegaard

While we re on dialects check out this website. Its really cool. You can dialectize TFL. I wanted to post it in the general forum but I m afraid it would get locked down.

If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara desert in five years there d be a shortage of sand. -Milton Friedman

From the Dialectizer translating this thread to jive, New_comer s original post becomes:

A Glock Preach it loud, bruddah. -

Rap about missnatchn identity. Slap mah fro

Regardless uh de Gansta indicashuns, ah dun did dig yo o iginal intenshuns

Dat s an HK USP9 bein missnatchn fo some Glock

Doing what you ve done, gets you what you ve got.

And here s one mo fo ya AHENRY:

You s and ah have some rendezvous wid destiny. Slap mah fro. We gots ta preserve fo our children dis, de last best hope uh man on eard, o we gots ta sentence dem t snatch de fust step into some dousand years uh darkness. If we fail, at least let our children and our children s children say uh us we justified our brief moment here. We dun did all dat could be done. - Rolo Kingfish, 1964

That looks bad on a handgun.:barf: :barf:

ACCEPT NOTHING LESS THAN FULL VICTORY.

General Dwight D. Eisenhower June 6, 1944

Yo yo dirty, what up wid dat. Shio, he be bust uh 9 on his asse on da cona of price scweet. My beeeoitch be eaten sum gweens. Dey drop da easy foe sheezy.

Eins ist mit einer Gewehr nur sicher.

Rolo Kingfish. . That is funny.

Those words just don t have the same meaning when in jive.

Don t you guys know ANY NINE is a GLOCK.

I had a Jennings that was a Glock once.

P1, PP, P32, P99, 1911, 1911, AB10, GP100, Hammerli Trail side, Lone Eagle. 308, Powdersprings M10/.45 SMG..the list goes on.

If you view seller s other auctions you will see that he has currently 3 auctions for jeweling on a barrel for Heckler Koch, Glock and Sig. He is just using the H K picture on to show the barrel jeweling for the Glock and Sig. I guess he forgot to mention that detail and could be confusing.

Who likes this work on a Glock.

..does it come with matching cufflinks.

I ve seen a SIG Sauer P226 with just the top of the barrel hood jewelled. It looked good on his gun.

Well, I was wrong..you CAN make an ugly gun uglier..

My GAWD, there s actually been 5 bids for this too

That s it, I m gonna dump a -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- on the hood of my truck and sell it on Ebay as a hood ornament.

are you going to have a buy it now option on your hood ornament. there wont be a reserve, will there.

Hehe, I want 19.99 for each ornament.

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The instructions are still there in the archived section, but the site has been down for a couple of days. The KTOG bulletin board is supposed to adopt forum software like used on TFL, so it should be much better than it is. was..

Last edited by Blackhawk; February 16, 2002 at PM.

I just can t seem to get over how people have this belief that a Desert Eagle is the most powerful handgun.

First, people I know that have one both in. 44 talk as though because it is a DE, it s more powerful than if the same round was used in another gun. Another I know that wants one, talks the same speach. this particular person also seems to always have to emphisize Magnum when talking bout his. 357 - which is too much for him So, for fun I while having a hunting gun talk, I mentioned one I use is my SBH - in. 44 Magnum. The response Oh, no, my DE will smoke that bullet right through the deer Exactly how much difference will that DE and my SBH have. The person who wants one, I m just tired of that discussionmakes me wanna load the. 45LC up and give him a taste of that. or borrow a friends. 454.

Just have to laugh to myself when I hear this malarky. Anyone else hear this stuff too.

I think your forgetting the. 50 Action Express.

Death and honor are thought to be the same,

but today I have learned that sometimes they are not.

I like big fat men like you. When they fall they make more noise.

and sometimes they never get up.

-Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

Not forgetting the. 50 AE at all. Nor am I forgetting the. 500 Limbaugh. Also not forgetting the. 50 BMG yes, they have handguns chambered for it. My point waswhy do ppl have this steadfast belief that a. 44 out of a DE is more powerful that if it s shot from any other gun.

If you are inferring that the. 50 AE is as powerful as the. 454, you are mistaken. And even if it was, it sure as heck is not even in the same league as a. 475 or. 500 Linebaugh. I love autos, but they can t compete with revolvers in the power category. Sorry.

Apparently you and I were typing at the same timeand thanks for reminding me of some others.

What about the BFR revolver in. 45-70.

And what about the T/C Contenders and Encores in every imagineable rifle caliber.

And those bolt action pistols by Remington and some other companies.

Autos are simply outclassed by others when it comes to raw power from a handgun.

But I ll take a 1911. 45 ACP anyday for protecting my a from two legged predators.

I don t know anyone who carries a. 500 Linebaugh, but if I were in a gunfight the odds would be against it.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

why do ppl have this steadfast belief that a. 44 out of a DE is more powerful that if it s shot from any other gun.

AGreed 50AE:barf: Why the fascination Or any Desert Eagle

Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained

On a serious note, I do remember reading something about DE s getting higher velocities out of same length barrel then all equal caliber revolvers. This was due to the fact that all revolvers take a hit on muzzle velocity because of the gap between cylinder and barrel. DE s don t have that problem.

That being the case say a. 44mag coming out of a 6 DE would have a higher velocity then same round coming out a 6 revolver.

I think that was the original question, wasn t it.

Not which handgun is more powerful. Since most will agree that. 50 DE has impressive performance, but doesn t even come near to claiming that title.

By the way, here s one reason why people think DE s are cool.

Last edited by Tankist; February 16, 2002 at PM.

I just like firing a modern gun rather than a Hopalong Cassidy cowboy revolver.

People get too much information from movies.

One person, who I thankfully no longer work with once popped in with if you want firepower, why don t you just get a. 357 magnum. Probably because it doesn t fit any definition of most firepower.

While a revolver does have a barrel gap, semi-automatic weapons operate on gas pressure, which will also sap away velocity. Is the difference in velocity from a 6 barrelled Desert Eagle that much greater than a 6 S W or Ruger.

Big difference I don t think so, in fact if I recall correctly it was something in order of 4-5 improvement over revolvers. In any case, it was less then 100fps better then most revolvers they tested it with.

To me that means nothing. But, I guess you could say that a. 44mag coming is out of DE is more powerful then a. 44mag coming out of any revolver. At least on paper anyway.

I must admit, I do own a. 44mag DE Mark VII and yes, it is large and heavy not to mention largely impractical for anything you would ever want to use a handgun for. Also it took me about 1000 rounds, countless brands of ammo plus about 6 months of weight lifting DE was not the only reason for that to be sure to learn how to shoot it properly. I haven t had a jam in months and my accuracy is 8 rounds in one hole at 25 feet.

Why. Simple, it s just fun to shoot. Everyone needs at least one toy gun.

Plus, it s always fun to see one of your buddies at the range try to shoot it for the first time.

Tankist - Can you see the problem with that phony photo.

Great big fireball, but no muzzle rise. There s no brass in the air and the hammer is cocked. Just another Photoshop fantasy.

Yeah, not to mention the edges of that flame look a little funny.

One thing for sure, that photo fake and all is not an exaggeration. For better or for worse you do get a huge muzzle blast depending on what you shoot.

Some of the ammo I tried produced muzzle blasts measured in feet. Lit the whole place up, not to mention the rapport. Great way to make new friends at the range.

But seriously, not everyone at the range would appreciate this kind of distraction when they are trying to practice. I ve settled down to a mid-range 240gr Magtech load which works reliably and looks and sounds no worse then any. 44mag revolver. I also try to be considerate by shooting it with fewer people around since I go to an indoor range. Haven t had any complaint yet. Mostly people just come over and want to try it.

Personally, I don t think the photo is faked. The slide appears to have started its travel rearward as the back end of the slide looks like it is equal, or close to equal, with the end of the grip horn. This amount of travel, 3/4, is enough to cock the hammer. It looks to me as the pic was just taken before muzzle rise. Could also be a video and the right frame chosen at the right moment.

This one is real. Evedently the muzzle rise happens after the flash. But, that flash does look a whole lot like the flash from the cover of that Ayoob book..what was it, stress fire.

BTW, this is of my buddy Keith shooting my 5 in. 45 colt Vaquero for the first and last time w/ Cor-bon 300grain. 45 colt magnums at about 1300fps.

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At our local gun show today I spotted a custom pre-70 series

1911 that the seller said was by a smith named Shockley that has

passed on. It appeared to be set up for bullseye shooting with

Bomar full rib and some other nice features. Any info on the smiths

quality of work and value would be appreciated.

About half a year ago I surfed on the net for info of Hk4 mine is also 380, used the Google search, and there was a site which printed the actual Hk4 manual page by page. Sorry that I didn t write down the address, I think I typed in Hk mod 4 and got the list of related sites. But the manual is kind of simple, except the part of changing barrels.

Self defensehow do you load your magazine.

It might sound like a silly question, but I have heard and read about people loading their CCW pistols with varying loads. IE hollow point/hollow point/FMG/FMG, etc. due to the situations that they will encounter as the confrontation continues.

For instance, I am speculating here. someone confronts you, you have an initial open shot or two and then they might be nehind a door or other pentrable obstacle, so you would want a different load.

Does anyone do this and/or do you have any thoughts regarding this concept and what are your suggestions. Please advise.

Small Classic Sebenza -or- Mnandi Jil UP 1.3w light

1998 BMW 328i 5-speedArctic Silver with Dove Grey leather

I carry Black Talons currently.

I did have it loaded Black Talon/Hydra Shok in staggered fashion but decided that was pointless and just went back to the Talons.

There s no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.

What is the current deal with Black Talons. Are they legal and can you still get them. What is the P/C situation with them if they would ever be used in self-defense.

Black Talons are and always were legal, Winchester just doesn t market them directly to non-law enforcement anymore.

CZ-75B 9x19mm: Winchester Q4280 127gr P SXT

BCP Colt Delta Elite: Pro Load 180gr Gold Dots

S W 610 Classic: Hornady 180gr XTP-Full

And since nobody else has corrected you yet, the right term is magazine, not clip unless you are talking about a M1 Garand or C96 Mauser. Or my S W 610 for that matter

There are tons of old arguments about stagger-loading your mags here. Personally, I think it is silly and pointless.

The Second Amendment IS homeland defense.

Ya know I ALMOST put magazine, but for some unkown reason I put clip. I stand corrected. ThanksI will adjust accordingly.

I am not a big fan of varying your loads in your mags. The situation will never go as you planned, and you ll probably end up using your ball rounds when the baddie is standing right in front of a school or something. Just find one good load/design and use it.

I knew a guy who would load 10 FMJs and 5 AP into his P89. Don t ask me how he got the AP, I don t know. They sure stuck to magnets, though. His reasoning was much like yours, he figured if he had fired 10 shots his target would probably be behind cover by then, so he d need the extra penetration.

Me, I just load 6 big ol hollow points into the. 44. Penetration AND expansion..

Patrick J. Sullivan :: sullivpa onid.orst.edu

When I whet my flashing sword, and my hand takes hold in judgement,

I will take vengeance upon mine enemies, and I will repay those who haze me.

how do you load your magazine.

No, seriously. I have darn little concern for specific bullets in most cases. Generally heavier in winter or the woods, lighter at work or in the apartment.

Staggering rounds is ridiculous. You re putting too much faith in the bullet instead your shooting. Let s see, the Hydra-Shok didn t bring him down, so maybe this Silvertip will. Oops, I guess not. Maybe there s a Golden Saber in there too.

I load mine one cartridge at a time.

And all the cartridges are the same.

When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. - Thomas Jefferson

Seven rounds of 230 grain Remington Golden Saber with 1 round of 230 grain Hornady Vector as the next to last round out. A visual alert that I m close to empty.

If it ain t metal, single stack single action, it ain t a 1911 no matter what it looks like.

1911 Forum THE TUBBY CURMUDGEON

How convenient for the people you are shooting at.

I have heard this strange theory beforeI still have to chuckle.

What do you do if the bullet pattern you have in your gun, doesnt match what the BG is doing. Hey BG. Ya you, you cant be behind that wall right now. Man, come on..now I have to rearrange my ammo..hang on. Be right with you.. .

Sounds like a real life situation, Huh. Shoot well

If they dont know you have a gun..then I did alright.

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choiceRush

Only time I ve hear this being done was in the olden days when cops carried. 38 s and anything more powerful was considered cruel. They would load one hot load to fire first, figuring once it was out the barrel no one would know the difference. That changed when ballistic science advanced, and when witnesses reported hearing BAANG bang bang bang..

But, by all means, go for the best statistical probability. So eat healthy, wear your seat belt, and be careful in the bathtub because you are never going to be in a gunfight. Over 95 of policemen never fire their pistols in action during their careers - and their legal bills are paid for. If you are carrying a gun but not carrying an incapacitating spray, you re not cover the most likely eventuality, and one a lot less likely to get you sued and/or put in jail.

usually i start with an empty mag, take a round in the left hand, feed it into the mag. repeat until all space is taken up in the mag. this usually takes 16rnds, repeat, shift to 10rnd mags, follow same steps.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty

is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

I can t imagine anyone who takes personal defense seriously tasking one s brain with what sort of projectiles to load into one s magazine. One of this, two of that, three of the other

To me, that sounds like someone who hopes that varying styles of rounds will offset the lack of practice and proficiency with the handgun one has chosen to use for self-defense.

Don t know about you guys but I can t afford to shoot 500 or so rounds per month which I do if I m sending Golden Sabers or Black Talons down range.so, like most, I reload or purchase factory re-loads by the thousands.

But at the end of each shooting session, I ll run two or three magazines of my personal choice Golden Sabers to remind myself of felt and perceived recoil, muzzle blast, etc..so I won t be caught off-guard should I have to use the weapon in a real scenario. Mine happens to be a Gunsite 45acp all-steel commander with BarSto, NOvaks, etc.

So, find the round that fits your style, works in your handgun and makes you feel comfortable about first hit stopping power and load your mag with it..

My step-dad used to do this with his. 357 revolver. The first 3 were 38 s, and the last 3 were full power. 357s. I think he had some sort of glass tipped less than lethal. 38 as the first shot, but I may be hallucinating and adding in something I read in a book its been a while. I think his rationalization was the ability to wound or not over penetrate at first, then kill if the threat kept coming, also have some low power rounds up front in case my mom used the gun instead. This was 15-20 years ago, and he had no professional training, so his mindset was different that what we have today regarding warning shots and whether it is better to have wounded perp or a dead perp. I m sure he would just advance the cylinder a few turns if he really needed those. 357s rather than shoot some. 38s before he got serious. Anyway, other than putting in tracer as the last couple of rounds of an assault rifle magazine or using the street sweepers big rotary magazine to select various specialty loads of 12 gauge, I don t think there is much use to mixing loads, especially in a mag fed weapon. LAter.

In this post you said, you are never going to be in a gunfight.

You have made much the same comment over and over in many other posts on this board.

Since you are from Mass. and don t understand the concept of freedom historically you did but have obviously forgotten those early lessons you opinion on this subject doesn t carry much water.

Please refrain from you continued anti self-defense position. There are thousands of people every year in this country who would strongly disagree with you.

Iuse the 124gr Hydra-Shok JHP in my 9mm and the 230 gr Hydra-Shok JHP in my 45 s.

Location: Boston, People s Republic of MA

I always stick with one type of ammo. Usually some sort of hollowpoint for home defense or carry. When in the woods, I normally go with FMJ s if the local ordnance permits.

All alike. Mostly Cor-Bon defensive rounds.

Like someone mentioned abovestaggering rounds is ridiculous.

My thought when I did it was, maybe the Hydra Shock will finish what the Talon started. When I really considered that, I realized my perceived desire to kill any attacker at all costs wouldn t make me look to good in court in the event I ever actually had to shoot someone.

I have no concerns whatsoever about my skillI shoot about 5-600 rounds a month out of my carry weapon. My thinking was, kill the SOB and make sure you have the equipment to do it.

Since I have pretty much perfected the mozambiqueI realize staggering my rounds is just setting myself up for potential legal hassle later. Now, as my perspective has gotten more realistic, my goal is simply to carry an effective round while concentrating on my ability to deploy it.

If I have different rounds in the tube, the changing recoil and blast may confuse me when I can t afford to be confused. For those of you that have shot 147gr 9mm Talons, and the 135gr 9mm Personal Defense Hydra Shocks, you know there is a major difference in the way the rounds fire.

Thats something I don t need to deal with in a self-defense scenario, and definitely something I don t want to have to explain to a prosecutor at a later date.

Stick with which ever premium brand of JHP functions the best and is the most accurate out of the given gun. If all things are equal functioning and accuracy wise, make a choice based on one of the following.

Favorite federal agency which uses them

Knowledge that one performs better because M/S says so

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No doubt someone in your business would disagree. It would not be good marketing to have prospective customers know they are 10,000 times more likely to die of heart disease than a gunshot, and if shot, more than 50 likely to die from a gunshot that is self-inflicted. Even though true.

It would be OK with me to say this is a fun hobby that might prove useful, in the same way that learning CPR does. I d also buy teaching youngsters about firearms to help their future military marksmanship or any of the other benefits of responsible firearm ownership and training. I m not anti-self defense - I m anti Sidewalk Commando advice that is going to get someone shot, sued, or both. Stay alert and aware. Know the situation you are in. Be able to deliver a range of responses to any threat. That s my advice.

I don t want to go into your comment about living in MA and understanding freedom too much as it is off topic - be happy to discuss it on a general forum. But please consider this. I could move a few miles to New Hampshire - I already have an office there. Or, I could stay here in MA, Boston, specifically donate time and money to causes, write letters to representatives and publications, seek interviews with candidates to explain my views on private ownership of firearms, and teach firearms use and marksmanship to friends and their kids.

To leave for a more friendly state would be cowardly. To stay here and fight for those principles, even when badly outnumbered and the tide against us, better honors the memory of the men who said, Stand your ground. Don t fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. And that s why I ve stayed.

However, it is 35 degrees, windy, and raining so moving to Arizona sounds pretty good right about now.

Customizing a Browning Hi-Power

I recently sort of rediscovered my BHP. I ve owned it for several years, always liked it, I just haven t shot it very much. However, when I do, it is quite apparent that I shoot it better than any other auto I own.

I ve never owned a custom gun, so I think it s about time I treat myself. Since I happen to shoot my Hi-Power better than any of my other auto s it seems the logical choice. Mine is a MK III that I haven t touched since it was bought other than to have that annoying mag safety removed.

In my research I ve decided what I want done. This includes a reliability package, a bevel package, new sights, and doing something about the ambi safety. Is there anything else I should get. I m considering using this as a CCW gun. I m on a little bit of a budget, I like to keep the cost under 500 if possible . Is my budget realistic. I could wait a little longer if I had to.

Who would you recommend to do this kind of work. I ve looked at Kurt Wickman and Novack s web sites, is there anyone else. Any help would be great.

The key is to not pull the trigger but to squeeze it. Evil Emporer Zurg

You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts. Unknown

Cylinder Slide is another option.

I am Pro-Rights on gun issues.

You re cutting it close on pricing. Cylinder and Slide, well known of their Hi-Power work, lists their reliability package for 350.

A set of night sights are about 60- 120, plus installation. If you don t already have bevels for your front and rear sights, this will be at least another 75.

Don t forget you have to ship UPS Red, which costs more.

A Cylinder and Slide ambi-safety is about 80- 85, depending on finish. This seems to be the part that most smiths use. It is nice if you prefer the 1911 style safety.

I think all the well known smiths will cost about as much. I didn t do a direct comparison because each includes different things in their packages.

All hope is not lost though. Examining my Hi-Powers, I really don t see the need for beveling. I use my Practical for carry when I don t use my Kimber Pro. I haven t noticed sharp edges, though my FIST kydex holster may be protecting me.

Things like the amdi-safeties can be done by a local smith or by you.

A good local smith can do these things for you for less. Definitely examine work they ve done and talk to people who have used them. Outside of hunting seasons they can often get your gun back to you sooner.

Garthwaite will throat barrel, adjust extractor for 25. Heinie sights or similar are 150, trigger job 150 includes some tightening of slide and frame and a matte finish re-blue with polished flats on the slide is 90. The re-finish includes a de-horn of sharp edges. That should be under your budget. His prices may have gone up a little, not sure. You won t be dissatisfied with his work.

I just got mine back from Don Williams

Did the Street Package w/ commander hammer wide trigger installed. Got a nice and crisp 4lbs trigger pull now and some nice Novak 3-dot sights. Could say nothing but good things about his work. All for a tad over 400.

Location: Southeastern Michigan

My guess is the best you can get for the money you want to spend will come from Ten Ring Precision in San Antonio, TX. Alex Hamilton is really easy to work with and does quality work. Never heard of Alex. He is a past president of the Pistolsmith s Guild and that should be a good enough recommendation for anyone. Regards, Richard

If it works flawlessly I wouldn t spend money on a reliability package. How can they improve on 100.

The dehorning and safety mods sound good. Any sights you want, maybe some stippling on the frontstrap. If you get hammer bite maybe a beavertail tang extension that will blow your budget and then the finish of your choice.

You can also check out George Gounger for your HP needs:

Location: Texas and Oklahoma area

I d definitely recommend a trigger job unless you are quite satisfied with what you have. I know Don Williams, Kurt Wickmann, Novaks, Jim Garthwaite all have good reputations with the crowd at

I have a Wickmann Hi-Power myself and am very pleased with it, although I ve heard his time to do work has increased quite a bit. Expect on it being out at least 6 months I d say

I think if you shop around, you ll be able to get the work done under your budget. Just take some time and talk to the various smiths. Make sure that they aren t just good pistolsmiths; but knowledgable about the Hi-Power specifically. Its pretty easy to screw up a trigger job on a Hi-Power and get the hammer to follow the slide.

I can do the reliability package for you for oh.20 bucks. I will put it in a reliable box and set it in a reliable safe on a reliable shelf for a reliable length of time and then reliably give it back to you.

I had mine done at C S about 10 years ago.novack 3 dots, commander hammer, extended single safety and 5 pound trigger.all I need in a HPalready reliable so just did a little polish on the feed ramp.good to go

Location: Kentucky, Refugee from California

Let us know how it turns out if you decide to do it. I have a BHP that is a likely candidate too. thanks

for all of the suggestions. I guess I ll have to do a little homework and make a decision.

I personally have recently obtained both garthwaite and novak full custom BHP s, and they are superb. and I talked to and closely considered wickman and C S only reason not them was time quoted at 4 to 6 months - both garthwaite and novak were in 3 month range. I dont think you can go wrong with any of the top 5 or 6 mentioned here. Get: trigger job, reliability pckg with barrel crown, sights, carry bevel package I d put last on the list I might instead get beveled mag well. enjoy, when you get them back you ll sleep with them under your pillow they are so nice. .

What didn t I read in this post. I m on a little bit of a budget, I like to keep the cost under 500 if possible . You aren t going to get a lot of first class gunsmithing for 500. I have and continue to spend a lot on handguns and I know you can t do a major overhaul for 500. Novak etc. aren t going to finish this project for 500. Regards, Richard

Christ, 500 and you can t get decent gunsmithing. It seems like it would be cheaper to buy the equipment and do it yourself.

The labor is self determined, but why in the hell are these. 05 pieces of metal parts being sold at such ridiculously high cost. Most of these 30 triggers, 50 safeties 200 sites don t cost more than 5 to produce.

If 500 isn t realistic, then how much do you think I ll need to spend.

Hello. Customizing BHPs can cost just as much as you re willing to pay. I tend to like them kind of plain, i.e: decent sights, good trigger, reliablility, accurate usually not a problem out of the box.

The HP below is an early MkIII, forged frame. All that was done was the addition of a C S Type I abbreviated ball hammer and a trigger job done by me at home, removal of the magazine disconnect also done at home, and the addition of Spegel stocks.

I had a gunsmith Lou Williamson install Novak fixed sights and remove the right side thumb safety and dress down the stud that passes through the frame. He also blk parkerized the pistol.

So, I paid about 50 for the hammer, don t remember on the sear, and about 60 for the stocks and about 200 to the gunsmith.

I m not sure what kind of reliability you are seeing, but for quality pistols with good reliability reputations like the BHP I d think the only sort of work you need is to polish the feedramp, make sure your springs are in good shape and make sure your magazines are in proper working order.

You can do all this yourself if you are careful and do your homework. I d think you would only call in a big name pro if you wanted things like a beavertail, stippling, match grade trigger/barrel or other work that involves carving up metal or precise tuning.

That being said, Arizona Response Systems seems to offer good prices for their work, and the folks on FNHiPower seem happy with all the gunsmithing work.

I d be happy to take your BHP, be nice to it, make sure it

runs, make it pretty,send it back.

I love high powers excellent weapon.

Good posts on the board, well known names have good reps.

Right handed. Left handed. Hand size-sml-med-lrg.

Complete disassemble-detail cleaning-detailed parts inspection

95.00 includes minor tune adjust-clearance and polish of

Reliability work if needed-polish feed ramp-throat-chamber

Tune extractor replace spring if needed

Check lock up and timing-headspace-barrel seat-slide and

Face and crown barrel if needed. 35.00

Wolff XP recoil and firing pin spring per caliber. 7.89

Heinie slant pro sights 135.00 Tritium 185.00 installed

Trigger job with CS type 2 hammer and hard sear 175.00

Bevel mag well max opening 45.00

Carry bevel complete 65.00 if needed

If you do the carry bevel work you will need to refinish.

IMO factory ambi is best-most need custom detent spring for

I think were close to your budget other than, refinish, grips,

checkering, or other cosmetics.

Really wish I could figure out this picture thing.

The pics are posting fine; just need to click on the link to see them, is all.

If you want a pic actually in your post and already have the images hosted on the web someplace, just use the following in your post:

Replace the with and you re good to go.

PS: That s a right purty High Power you got there.

Thanks for the info, I m posting from my pc wish I had a web

arnt you all up awful late, I get addicted to this stuff told myself

I was gonna call it quits 3 hours ago.

Wish I had some better quality pics most of my album is older

mavica stuff kind a grainy, maybe its the photographer

wonder if I spelled that correctly.

My BHP 40, some day I ll Finish It, Current goodies

CS type 2 hammer and hard sear, Heinie slant pro sights,

Ahrends custom grips, front cocking serrations

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Well, I got to the range yesterday with my new 29, 100 rounds of 180gr UMC, and 40 rounds of 175gr. Winchester Silvertip. Shooting at ranges from 5 to 15 yards, both slow and rapid fire, failure drills, and retreat drills.

The only thing I can say is.why didn t I buy the 29 sooner I must have been crazy not to switch to 10mm.

Admittedly, I was a little apprehensive about what I had heard about the recoil; it had been a long time since I shot 10mm and when I did it was in a much larger package, a full size Smith Auto with Hogue grips.

The little 29 performed FLAWLESSLY, was extremely accurate under 2 groups at 15 yards in slow fire, Hey it was my first time out, and most importantly, the legendary recoil, at least the recoil I had come to expect given the comments here and on GlockTalk, just wasn t there.

To relate it to shooting other weapons, I d say that the recoil with the 175 gr. Silvertips was much. . easier to contol than my. 357 snubbie with full power 125 gr or 158 gr loads. I find it easier to shoot than than the G30 I had a few years ago.

The range officer and a friend were also there, and they were also surprised at how easy the 29 was to control.

I haven t been this happy with a new weapon in a LONG, LOOOONG time.

If you re thinking about about the 29 or 10mm. Shoot it for yourself before you re sucked into the myth, and that s exactly what it is, about the 10 being too stout a round or the 29 being too small to control it. That FBI agents couldn t control this round, in an all metal framed gun, is laughable. Now where can I find a G20.

Years back, before the availability of custom parts, a popular fix for 1911 hammer bite, was to hacksaw a horizontal slot in the grip safety tang. A 1/8 inch thick steel plate, nicely curved, was then soft or silver soldered in the slot. This extended and widened the tang.

Another fix would be to saw the end of the tang off, forming a flat. Have an extended piece of metal TIG welded in place. If you re careful about letting the heat spread, you could silver solder the peice in place.

On my old Springfield P9, I just rounded the sides of the hammer spur off. I found that I was getting battered by the sharp edges, not pinched ala the 1911.

That s about what I paid for my 1066, although mine had some holster wear from LEO holster use. The price is right, especially if it s in good shape.

General consensus seems to be that the 10xx-series Smiths are among the best pistols ever cranked out by . Reliable, solid, well-constructed, flat, and easy to shootalthough they are a tad on the heavy side if you re used to toting a polymer autochucker. The 1066 weighs in at 39 ounces, not a lightweightbut it s very easy to carry in the right holster thanks to its slimness, especially in the grip area.

10mm is a great caliber, powerful and versatile, and the 10xx-series Smiths are very good platforms for it. I d get it in a heartbeat for that pricethey only made the 1066 for two years, between 1990 and 1992, and they sure won t be getting any more common in the future.

I have two PA-63s - one was a new commercial model that I bought used, and the other is a surplus import I m not sure if Century imported it, but if not, I suspect it is about the same. They both work okay. The surplus pistol has a very rough exterior on the slide lots of machine marks - like they just skipped the final polishing and blued it. The commercial model has a nice finish, and the other surplus pistols I ve seen are much nicer looking than mine, though the bluing is generally somewhat worn. The decocking lever on my commercial pistol was very difficult really impossible to use - it just wouldn t go down. Then one day I got to messing with it and got it working again I m not really sure what was wrong - maybe some grease or grit in the works or something. Other than that, they both work fine.

I think all PA-63s have VERY heavy double-action triggers. Mine are okay in single action for this type of pistol. So obviously these aren t the finest pistols money can buy. But they are probably some of the finest pistols 100 can buy. They probably cost around 20- 30 less than a Bulgarian Makarov. I d still pick the Makarov, but the PA 63s look cool, have a push-button magazine release, are a little lighter, and work pretty reliably. I d pick a PA-63 over any of the really low-end often zinc pistols Jennings, Lorcin, etc.. I think they are decent pistols and good values.

Last edited by DougB; February 16, 2002 at PM.

So that you know, Ammo data 4 9mm

Load Lot Pistol Vel. fps Pen. Inches Weight

Winchester Ranger 127gr P RA9SXTP 20892 G-17 1,180 14.6 114.9

Winchester Ranger 127gr P RA9SXTP 20892 G-19 1,137 14.9 114.5

Winchester Ranger 127gr P RA9SXTP 20892 G-26 1,118 15.3 115.8

Remington 115gr P R9MM4N E29KC0403 G-17 1,329 13.2 113.7

Remington 115gr P R9MM4N E29KC0403 G-19 1,304 14.1 113.6

Winchester 115gr jhp USA9JHP SB41 G-17 1,211 14.0 113.7

Winchester 115gr jhp USA9JHP SB41 G-19 1,192 15.4 114.9

Corbon 115gr jhp p 1122 G-17 1,424 9.6 112.9

Corbon 115gr jhp p 1122 G-19 1,360 11.0 90.7

Triton 115gr P TQTR9HVA 901568 G-17 1,389 9.6 114.0

Triton 115gr P TQTR9HVA 901568 G-19 1,446 9.8 104.9

Federal 115gr jhp 9BPLE 431322T086 G-17 1,357 10.6 109.1

Federal 115gr jhp 9BPLE 431322T086 G-19 1,349 11.3 103.2

Corbon 90gr jhp p Not readable G-17 1,478 5.5 43.9

Corbon 90gr jhp p Not readable G-19 1,450 5.74 39.5

Federal 115gr jhp 9BP 22155V064 G-17 1,259 13.0 110.5

Federal 115gr jhp 9BP 22155V064 G-19 1,268 13.4 111.6

Federal Hydra Shok 124gr P9HS3G1 43Q223T155 G-17 1,174 Over 18.5 121

Federal Hydra Shok 124gr P9HS3G1 43Q223T155 G-19 1,137 Over 18.5 122.1

Speer Gold Dot 115gr jhp 53614 23619 G-17 1,200 Over 18.5 110.7

Georgia Arms 115gr P G9MMF NA G-17 1,275 Over 18.5 114.7

Winchester Ranger 80gr P RA9DF 6PH72 G-17 1,603 Over 18.5 80

Winchester Silvertip 147gr X9MMST147 20257 G-17 970 Over 18.5 141.6

Winchester Silvertip 147gr X9MMST147 20257 G-19 932 Over 18.5 141.5

Remington 147gr bonded GSB9MMC J30NC0501 G-17 1050 Over 18.5 139.6

Remington 147gr GS9MMC unreadable G-17 960 16.1 136

Federal 147gr jhp 9MS 23480V255 G-17 947 Over 18.5 138.6

Powermax 115gr P 1B23/A G-17 1,404 Over 18.5 108.7

Pro Load 124gr P 03013 213470401 G-17 1,236 Over 18.5 119.8

Federal 95gr SP 9CP 244911558 G-17 1,457 Over 18.5 94.8

Federal EFMJ 124gr P P9CSP1 240323X321 G-17 1,080 14.3 119.9

Remington 124gr GS GS9MMB P29LC1236 G-17 1,089 Core 16.1 115.9

Federal 124gr Hydra Shok P9HS1 NA G-17 1,080 15.7 123

Brown Bear 145gr hp A919RHP N040701 G-17 1,111 Core 14 39.5

Triton 115gr QSHP TR9QSA 101422 G-17 1,429 9.6 94.7

Powermax 147gr p 1B28/A G-17 1,105 15.4 138.6

Mullins 115gr p 9A 11499 G-17 1,398 12.5 108.5

Mag Safe 60gr Defender 9D NA G-17 1,693 8.7 35

Mag Safe 52gr Agent MS9 NA G-17 2,153 10.0 49

Speer Gold Dot 147gr 23619 23619 G-17 1,050 17.5 136.3

Corbon 125gr P 09125/20 200110-2 G-17 1,248 10.5 112.3

Corbon 125gr P 09125/20 200110-2 G-19 1,239 10.1 118.0

Triton 135gr hi Vel TQTR9HVE 111401 G-17 1,207 9 119.6

Winchester 147gr USA9JHP2 smudged G-17 977 16.9 124.9

Corbon 147gr P NA G-17 1049 15.8 126

Mag Safe 50gr Mini Glock 9MG NA G-17 1,184 4.5 34

Federal Hydra Shok 147gr P9HS2 32P109R059 G-17 926 17.0 127

Winchester Ranger 147gr SXT RA9SXT PB71 G-17 1,006 15.0 131.5

Winchester Ranger 147gr SXT RA9SXT PB71 G-19 982 16.4 127.8

Here s the website: AmmoLab.com

From what medium were these bullets recovered.

Anything other than human flesh, and you still have to wonder about them.

HehI could have picked out the two Federal HS without looking at the table below the pic.

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Today I purchased a Danish military SIG P210 m/49 from a friend of mine for 950. It has a fair amount of wear on the original matte finish but is mechanically perfect, very tight and smooth as butter. Also, it is very very accurate and a joy to shoot. The recoil is unbelieveably light, alot less than my CZ-75B.

The question is, did I get a good deal.

Is this the single-action 9mm that sells for over two grand new.

If you don t understand weapons you don t understand fighting. If you don t understand fighting you don t understand war. If you don t understand war you don t understand history. And if you don t understand history you might as well live with your head in a sack. - Colonel Jeff Cooper

Then yes you birdbrain, you got an EXCELLENT deal.

Sheesh. Where am I when these awesome deals come around.

I can do the math, doofus, what I didn t know was how much the Danish military models were worth, not the pretty new ones.

Quick - give me that guys name and number.

JUST GOT MY P210 for under a Grand.

The scary thing is, my friend got the gun a few months ago from some guy who had no idea what it even was for about 700.

CastleBravo- Has it been reliable thus far. I ve always had a thing for 210 s so I m really jealous.

Shot a bunch of S B FMJ through it and it worked perfectly. Shot right to point of aim, seemed extremely accurate. Trigger is about 4lbs and PERFECTLY crisp.

Hello. I d say you got a decent deal, money-wise, on these Danish police pistols. Probably carried a lot more than it was shot. I ve seen em sold from about 800 to a thousand or so, but considering you got a P210 that will likely serve just as well as a new one, for much less, you got a good deal.

PS: You likely already know this, but be prepared for sticker shock when and if you price new factory magazines.

An M49 should sell for no more than 800 if it was one of the original imports. An FFL friend sold the last one he had last year and got 850 for it.

There are a lot of thieves trying to get 1000 for them. At that price I would pass.

I would say if the finish is worn you got a marginal deal. Not ripped off but nothing to brag about.

Small detail, it s not a police pistol. M49 with Danish proof marks: crown FKF for Defence Warmateriel Administration.

Last I checked Danish police used Walther PP, then USP.

Location: N. of Fords Switch, OK, USA

I don t know about the price and value of your particular pistol, but it will likely remain a joy to shoot as long as you own it. About the only complaint I have against stock P-210 s is hammer bite, this is the only hand gun I own out of many that I ve left stock.

You got a deal in my book. I bought one the Danish M49 s in early 2000 for a grand and felt that I got a good deal. Mine presented itself in about 95 condition, and given my family s Danish heritage, I couldn t resist inside joke, several family members were in the Danish resistance in WWII. It proved to be the most accurate autoloader I ve ever owned. I can still recall the joy of racking the slide on that finely milled machine, hearing the ka-chink of the barrel lugs unlocking like the proverbial bank vault. I sold it to raise funds for a Winchester Model 21 Ahh, Model 21, dark mistress

Anyway, enjoy it, and don t let anyone convince you that you paid too much. They are finely crafted machines through and through, despite their rough military finish. I could never shoot mine up to its ability.

tis not so deep as a well, nor so wide as a church door. But tis enough. Twill serve

I m not too concerned about the investment value of the thing per se, since I intend to keep and shoot the thing. I mean, this thing is a fabulous pistol. If it is worth oodles of cash, great, if not I ll probably have it re-blued by Sigarms so it looks pretty.

Last edited by CastleBravo; February 10, 2002 at PM.

If this gun has traded hands a few times, and nobody knew its worth, I would be suspiscious it is stolen. Do you know if its clean. You may want a LEO to run a computer check for you.

Nobody here can agree on what the thing is worth, either.

To me, you got a deal. I d also get it re-blued.

It looks good and it is a shooter. Great to know that people put in that kind of effort in a duty pistol.

I m going to talk to the Sigarms gunsmith soon to see what the scoop is.

One of my dealers has one for 1,000 with a pair of mags and you have to pay 88 in taxes.

That thing is crap. I ll give you 350 for it because I think you re a nice guy and I m like that.

That is a great looking pistol. Is the grip to big for a small handed person. How about hammer bite. I ve read a couple of threads with other people talking about P210 hammer bite.

I was thinking about getting a P210 saw a couple of write ups in recent gun mags. Any leads you can throw our way.. Pleeeeeeeeze.

CastleBravo, Two or three years ago one of the

larger importers had the M/49 for 750-800. I

have been looking for one for some time and they

are very hard to come by. So I would say you

got a decent deal and could get your money back

if you are not happy with it which is probably very unlikely. Jeff

Looks great. I think the P210 is an awesome gun; I m really considering buying one of these next year, hopefully my company bonus will be good.

I like the new ones that SIG is coming out with this year - the P210-2 others are too high .

My only problem is that I m left-handed and I m wondering if I could reach the safety lever with my left index finger. The reason I like the new ones by SIG is that they made the safety lever larger, perhaps it would be easier for me to reach

My question is are there any lefties who own/shoot these. Is the safety lever easy to reach. what are your experiences with this gun.

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Congrats on the fine pistol. Over here in Sweden the P210 or Neuhausen as we call it the competition pistol to have. Even though it s about 2500, just about everyone has one. No 1911 s in sight. HP s. Nowhere to be seen. The quality and accuracy of the P210 is outstanding.

The most important thing to remember to look for in a used P210 is cracks in the frame. VERY common, and Very expensive to weld up. The most common are: above the thumb grip, or beavertail, and inside, in the piece of metal the barrel lands on during recoil.

Most frames crack because of an extensive diet of hot military 9mm rounds the swedish army s M39B ammo. If normal ammo is used, no cracks should appear.

Have your pistol checked, just in case. If cracked, it won t blow up in your hand, but you might have to weld it later.

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